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Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:27 am
by Rob
Sitruc wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:27 am
I thought maybe a one time "license" fee for the current version might be more palatable to most than a subscription.
I think you're right. People would like it a lot better if they pay money once and can use Mojo forever.

Sorry if my use of the word "license" was unclear. I'm so used to the word that I forget it's legal jargon. When people sell software what they really sell is a license. Even when people totally 100% completely give away software, they give an open-source license. Etc.

I like the other part of your idea too -- additional payments in the future for new features -- so much that I'd like to do it in the past and not just the future. :) I'm joking but here's what I mean.

There could be two different versions of Mojo with different features and different prices. The first version could be "Mojo Single" for people that run just one DAOC account. It doesn't have a Team tab or a "PCs with Mojo" tab. It doesn't have multiboxing scripts. It can't interact with copies of Mojo on other PCs.

The second version would be "Mojo Multi" for multiboxers. It has everything that's in Mojo Single plus a Team tab, PCs with Mojo tab, multiboxing scripts, and the ability for each copy of Mojo to talk to and control Mojos on other PCs.

There would also be a free trial version with all features except it's limited to running DAOC for about 30 minutes. Or maybe two trial versions, one for Single and one for Multi.

For prices, I'm thinking maybe $19.99 for Mojo S and $49.99 for Mojo M. Pay once, use it forever.

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:32 pm
by Sitruc
I think your on to something there with versions of Mojo. I'll let you know how I use it in a very simple way. When I run two accounts on the same computer, i.e. a bot, I still have the actions of pressing a single key do a function on both of the accounts. That's pretty much it, I don't pretend to run a team, just two is as many as I've ran before. I usually have 4 keys I use between the accounts, 1 2 3 & 4, other than that can't say I use much else. Not that I wouldn't but I do find Mojo easy for logging in my favorite toons and adjusting my gamma <dark screens suck>. I run easy simple scripts, but I know that Mojo is a power house program that can do much more, I just don't comprehend all the ways to use it to run a team. That being said I would pay $19.99 for a license. Then if you did a, "hand holding" for us that don't catch on as quickly to watch over and over, video series teaching people how to create scripts for the games they use, that might be something to pay an extra $10 for a series. Food for thought, extra content nets extra money. You'll be a youtube star before we're done :P

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:08 pm
by DaocRath
Rob

First of all... thanks for finally adding an icon lol

I have been using Mojo for a few years. Its been so long I have lost track as I have been an avid daoc player since it came out. I do love the conveniences that Mojo provides and all the hard work you have put into keeping it compatible. I also on occasion read and sometimes comment on the forum here. I am open to a one time fee for a current version and maybe small fee's for any large updates that were above and beyond updating mojo to keep it working with any daoc patch but a monthly fee I would just return to the old way of loggin in without MOJO. As it is I have closed down my extra accounts and only keep 2 active for most of the year now. I will keep playing daoc until they turn the lights off at the server farm but it is a very old game and its graphics/graphics engine is in need of a serious overhaul/update.

I know many people run multiple computers.... I would be against having to pay a fee for each computer to run Mojo, but I would be ok with a limit of so many registered computers per account activation/lic. I do not always play on my desktops and when I am mobile I use my laptops. I have even been known to sneak daoc onto other family members computers during long holiday visits. I do run more then one account per computer sometimes but do not use all the bells and whistles of a true multiboxer. I would be ok with a one time fee of $20-$30 to use MOJO with my DAOC but I think $50 would be pushing it by about $20-25 and I would just return to the old way of dual logging/2 per computer.

I think its awesome that you have created such a cool program and have kept it going for so long with so little financial incentive to do so, other then your love of the game and coding. I also understand that it takes time and effort to keep this program updated. If its about money... have you looked into seeing if EA would be interested in purchasing Mojo to integrate it into DAOC's login?

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:33 pm
by DaocRath
That last paragraph I didnt mean you maybe hurting for money I just meant if you were looking to make money on your program, maybe they would be interested in integrating it into the game software as they keep saying they are always trying to improve the gaming experience for its player base and maybe you can make some big cash on it and not have to deal with any more updates anymore.

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:46 am
by Rob
Sitruc wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:32 pm
I usually have 4 keys I use between the accounts, 1 2 3 & 4, other than that can't say I use much else.
From my point of view as the author of two multiboxing programs this is a pretty big thing because Mythic put a "block" in DAOC that stops background copies of DAOC from receiving keystrokes. When you press those keys and send them to the bot, Mojo is allowing you to send "through" that block.

Last time I checked (quite a few years ago) there were only two multiboxing programs on the planet that could do this with DAOC: HotkeyNet and ISBoxer. HotkeyNet did it okay with 1, 2, 3, and 4 but if you tried (for example) to send Ctrl-Alt 3 by pressing Ctrl-3 with your fingers, it wouldn't work right because the background toon would see the Alt. HotkeyNet couldn't hide it.

But the biggest problem with HotkeyNet is sending keystrokes while you hold down a key to make the foreground toon move. This interrupts background toons and knocks them off.

HotkeyNet also can't send movement hotkeys.

Finally with Mojo I got all these details working perfectly. This was very difficult. It took about two weeks of fulltime work. I did it for fun just to see if I could do it. A challenge to myself, revisiting something I had written for the first time 13 years earlier (I wrote HotkeyNet in 2005).
Sitruc wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:32 pm
Then if you did a, "hand holding" for us that don't catch on as quickly to watch over and over, video series teaching people how to create scripts for the games they use, that might be something to pay an extra $10 for a series.
I wish I could do this. I agree it would be a good thing. But the number of DAOC players has fallen so low that if my goal is to make money, I don't think it makes sense to put additional work into Mojo. There are other ways I can use my time that would generate a lot more money.

I still may add some features to Mojo anyway but I do that not for money but because it's fun for me. Why it's fun, I have no idea, because I've been a programmer for 36 years and it seems like I should be completely sick of programming by now. But for some reason, occasionally, I feel like adding something to Mojo for fun. But I don't feel the same way about making videos.

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:26 am
by Rob
DaocRath wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:08 pm
First of all... thanks for finally adding an icon lol
Haha you're welcome. :)

Thanks a lot for taking time to tell me your perspective and how you would react to prices. I appreciate it.
DaocRath wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:08 pm
If its about money... have you looked into seeing if EA would be interested in purchasing Mojo to integrate it into DAOC's login?
In 2014 Broadsword contacted me and asked if I would like to work for them to make changes to the game's UI. I don't think it's practical to integrate Mojo into DAOC but if they had hired me, one of the things I could have and would have liked to do is put Mojo-like features directly in DAOC. However after five or six months of emails about working for them it became clear that it will never happen.
DaocRath wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:08 pm
That last paragraph I didnt mean you maybe hurting for money I just meant if you were looking to make money on your program, maybe they would be interested in integrating it into the game software as they keep saying they are always trying to improve the gaming experience for its player base and maybe you can make some big cash on it and not have to deal with any more updates anymore.
I thought your suggestion was fine. :)

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:33 am
by eryn
Hi Rob,

i am very happy that you decided to continue developing Mojo, it is immensely useful and well done!
Honestly i would much rather see it integrated directly into the DAOC launcher. I saw your reply regarding this and i'm terribly sorry that it wouldn't work out, still i should register my "vote" on this idea.

As for payment, I personally would support you gladly with a subscription. Though i would urge you to align the payment options to the DAOC prepaid time periods (1 month, 3, 6) so it would be easier to use for those of us who do not have a running subscription.

Also, just a thought, not sure if it's worth it or even feasible, maybe keep some basic features free (maybe multi-logging?) and ask payment for the others?

Cheers and warm regards,
Erynwen Siabra (of Gaheris)

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:10 am
by Rob
Hi Erynwen,

Thanks a lot for the kind words. I was also disappointed that I didn't get to modernize and improve the client's interface, fix its bugs, etc. It would have been fun and I think the results would have been great. But it's not going to happen and it's water under the bridge.

I agree about 1-3-6-12 for subscriptions. Everybody else said they'd rather pay a single time but it has occurred to me that I may have to do a sub because I want to have the option to retire from Mojo one day. With most programs, the publisher can sell lifetime licenses and walk away because most programs keep working indefinitely even if the publisher stops working on them. But Mojo is different because it's vulnerable to changes in DAOC. Every time Broadsword patches DAOC, there's a chance Mojo will break and I will have to modify it. If I take money for a one-year sub, I'm committed to updating Mojo for a year and then I'm free to retire. If I take money for a lifetime license, I'm committed to fixing Mojo for as long as DAOC exists.
Also, just a thought, not sure if it's worth it or even feasible, maybe keep some basic features free (maybe multi-logging?) and ask payment for the others?
I've given the program away free for nine years and I think I've run out of willingness to keep doing that. Some of Mojo's users are nice and appreciative and some of them even make voluntary donations. But many of them, when they write to me asking for help, express such a strong sense of self-entitlement and lack of appreciation that I no longer want to play Santa Claus for them.

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:45 pm
by Buffsteria
Hi, Rob!
I just came over here to say thanks again for changing my life with Mojo. As I once said, I can't imagine playing without it, especially now that multiboxing is allowed again.

I think making Mojo a paid program is entirely up to you. I just think it would add to the financial burden of multiboxers who already have to pay a huge sum plus tax every month to keep playing a game that might just not even be here tomorrow.

I would pay for Mojo if I had to, there's no question that it would be worth every penny. But that being said, when I started playing, the monthly sub for DAoC was what? $9.99? Now I pay $16.50 per account. I'm actually not wanting to face the facts but it looks like I'm shelling out $99 a month for this game. When I think about that, I start thinking I shouldn't be subbed. But I only really like playing PVE in multiboxing.

So I'm paying $1188 a year for DAoC....wow...I guess I should probably stop.

Re: Mojo becoming a paid program?

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:33 pm
by Rob
Hello Buffsteria,

Delighted to hear from you! I had no idea you're still playing DAOC. When I look back on the whole 18 years, your posts on VN and Postcount are one of my favorite parts.

I was planning to add license keys, etc., to the next build of Mojo so I could start charging money. But I haven't done it and the old build expired today so I published a new free one that's good for another three months. I have a feeling it's not too likely that I'll ever get around to it. Too much work and too few people still playing the game to make it worthwhile.
So I'm paying $1188 a year for DAoC....wow...I guess I should probably stop.
Probably. :)

When the 10-year trophy came out, I remember calculating that it had cost me about $1800 per account and wondering if that had really been the best possible use of the money. :)