only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:05 pm

I thought of something else you can test easily.

You need two separate DAOC install folders (real ones, not Mojo virtual ones). Run DAOC-EC's in both.

If the second instance is denied, it's 100% certain that Broadsword is not doing this with a shared memory segment.

If the second instance is allowed, it's possible that they are using a shared named data segment.

Come to think of it you can probably look directly for a shared named data segment with a Microsoft utility called dumpbin.exe but that's more technical.
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alnmike
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by alnmike » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:11 pm

Rob wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:05 pm
I thought of something else you can test easily.

You need two separate DAOC install folders (real ones, not Mojo virtual ones). Run DAOC-EC's in both.

If the second instance is denied, it's 100% certain that Broadsword is not doing this with a shared memory segment.

If the second instance is allowed, it's possible that they are using a shared named data segment.

Come to think of it you can probably look directly for a shared named data segment with a Microsoft utility called dumpbin.exe but that's more technical.
I copied the installation folder (5GB-ish) and tried earlier (denied), but they should still share all the appdata stuff.
Is there a way to change that behavior? Far as I know, the only thing in that is the char.bin and toon quickbar/ui files. Which is where MOJO virtual folder stuff comes in. (godsend BTW)

Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:24 pm

Yeah, you can do that with a paths.dat file. There’s a bug in Mythic’s code so be sure to put a blank line at the end of the file after the last line of text.

https://gaheris.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=941
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Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:49 pm

A good test would be to launch a first EC successfully and then terminate it abruptly with Mojo. Then see if you can run another EC successfully. If you can, DAOC-EC probably isn't setting any kind of flag or variable and we need to look instead for a direct form of interprocess communication like windows message broadcasting.

Another thing you you could try is watching for registry changes (the first EC instance would change a registry value when it starts and stops) with Process Monitor (another free Sysinternals program from Microsoft).

https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/proc ... -log-file/
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LtGab
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by LtGab » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:18 pm

Well I think I found part of the answear, I was doing test with VMs and it worked well so I decided to clone it and try to run another and turns out the 2nd VM cannot connect : only 1 EC account allowed on a PC. So I think they are only checking the PC names or something else that would be the same on a cloned PC.

Tried changing the 2nd VM PC name and it still doesn't work

Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:46 pm

alnmike wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:42 pm
Is there a program that records everything over a time period?
Sorry I missed this post yesterday. I think Process Monitor (Sysinternals) records logs.
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Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:49 pm

LtGab wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:18 pm
Well I think I found part of the answear, I was doing test with VMs and it worked well so I decided to clone it and try to run another and turns out the 2nd VM cannot connect : only 1 EC account allowed on a PC. So I think they are only checking the PC names or something else that would be the same on a cloned PC.

Tried changing the 2nd VM PC name and it still doesn't work
Great catch. I wonder if DAOC puts something in the registry to identify the machine.
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alnmike
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by alnmike » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 am

Interesting. Did you clone the VM before or after running EC? Not that it would matter if it's getting the equivalent of the windows license key.
Also, by working well, did you have missing graphics like my picture, or did you solve that? Thanks.

I haven't had a chance to do the MOJO force quit test.
Going on a big trip soon, won't be able to do anything until first week(end) of December.

LtGab
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by LtGab » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:49 am

Mike - Yes I cloned after trying an EC account, so if daoc changed a file it got cloned. For the VM I don't know whats your problem, mine runs fine with all the textures and all, I just gave it 3 GB of ram and 2 processor. It's still a bit laggy but I can run some mojo hotkeys with it no problem.

alnmike
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by alnmike » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:34 am

Hmm. I might try again then. Did you give it 2 cores or 2 threads(1 core)?

What VM program did you use? I used the first one that Google told me that looked ok.

I also ran mine, so might delete and reinstall windows, then clone that before starting EC.

LtGab
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by LtGab » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:05 am

I'm using Vitual box and I gave it 2 core. I did a fresh intall of windows 10 64 bit, a fresh install of daoc and mojo. You might need to tweak the game graphics a bit (I set mine to low).
Rob wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:05 pm
You need two separate DAOC install folders (real ones, not Mojo virtual ones). Run DAOC-EC's in both.

If the second instance is denied, it's 100% certain that Broadsword is not doing this with a shared memory segment.

If the second instance is allowed, it's possible that they are using a shared named data segment.
I tested this and I can't play the second daoc, I tried with a fresh daoc install and not a copy of my first daoc.

alnmike
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by alnmike » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:15 pm

When you cloned the VM, which of these 3 options did you do?

https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81897

Looks like if you just copy-pasted the file and opened it, itll have the same hardware ID's, if thats what broadsword picks up on. Testing right now. I fixed my graphics issue by giving the VM more video memory, must have run out of textures for my screenshot example. <Nevermind, happened after a few minutes, all the ground/walls, etc went away lol>
Theres also a setting to keep or generate a new MAC address for the clone. Could it be that simple? lol.
Different mac address setting didnt work lol.

alnmike
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by alnmike » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:11 pm

Did the Mojo kill window thing, allowed me to login to another account immediately.

Did a fresh VM with new windows install, was able to run that and the other vm, and main comp with 3 accounts at once.
But man, resource hog. Each VM is taking 4GB ram (allocated 3GB in virtualbox), and 20% CPU in task manager. (6c/12t cpu, set 1 vm to use 3 threads, other vm to use 2 threads, both took 20% cpu in Taskmanager)

Compared CPU% usage, and ram usage with all 3 up, 1 vm closed, and both vms closed, then all daoc closed. 1 thread still caused about 20% CPU util, so its probably just pegging 1 core in task manager. Whether thats true or not is a different story. Changed ram allocation to 2gb, and it took 3gb.
When I get back, ill spend the time making another 4 vm's, and do a test with 6, see how bad my comp chugs.



Really hope we figure out a way to spoof whatver BS is using without using VM's, cuz I really dont want to build a $2,500 computer to only run daoc lol.

LtGab
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by LtGab » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:08 pm

I used the first option, cloned the disk, so new hardware ID's. I didn't know of the 2 others.

Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:57 pm

alnmike wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:11 pm
Did the Mojo kill window thing, allowed me to login to another account immediately.
I think that's useful to know because it rules out some possible methods that Broadsword might be using.
alnmike wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:11 pm
Really hope we figure out a way to spoof whatver BS is using without using VM's, cuz I really dont want to build a $2,500 computer to only run daoc lol.
Anything that a VM hides from DAOC and Broadsword can also be hidden by some piece of software, maybe a utility from Microsoft, so I'm 99.9% sure you can run your EC army without VMs, but like you say, first you have to figure out exactly what that piece of software needs to do, and with the methods you've been using, that might take a lot of tedious trial and error.

A programmer with knowledge of low-level Windows programming might be able to find the answer fast with the use of other sorts of methods. I wonder how many people in that category are still involved with DAOC. If I had a computer I might be tempted to try to figure it out as a fun puzzle but I'm living away from home for a few months without a PC so I'm spared from that particular misuse of my time :). On the other hand I have to endure the torture of typing this on a 6 year old Mac Book so not everything is rosy here in Santa Fe, New Mexico. :)
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Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:40 pm

alnmike wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:15 pm
Different mac address setting didnt work lol.
Progress! Another wrong answer bites the dust.

I'm still guessing it's a GUID that game.dll puts in the registry. Probably wrong but it keeps popping into my head because I tend to use that technique myself when I need an ID for a user or machine.
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alnmike
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by alnmike » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:24 pm

KISS philosophy...

Ouch, Mac too. :p

MrBoboToast
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by MrBoboToast » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:32 pm

Firstly, it must be said that Mojo is sweet!.. I'm a very new user of Mojo but an Avid ISBoxer user so when I encountered the "1 free client per PC" error (after creating 8 new DAoC accounts) a friend told me to try Mojo..

Secondly, I loved how LIT and hard working you guys are at this subject and is great to see a communities Gears turning at full tilt..
that being said I wish I could bring a brilliant mind to the table but with a short memory and inability to hunt down information, I can't recall where I saw this following info pertaining to the EC 1 client "error"..

Broadsword is using a ping method that continues to hit and identify the game client**... and sorry but that is all i can remember..
The VM probably worked if it creates a pseudo ip, comp name, and such.. also I remember seeing a statement that they would be looking for VMs and Banning them..

I really hate bring information without verification but I was hoping to add an idea in your Think tank that might push it toward fruition.

The final message is.. don't forget, and yes I abhor this idea but you can always subscribe and the multi-box issues are all over... Note tho - Multi-boxing in RvR is against the TOS.. I think you can in Darkness falls and such.. (no bgs, no frontier)

**I am beginning to believe the "NPC disappearing bug" is caused by this constant ping protocol and is corrupting data or something..??
I apologize for being a conspiracy theorist but read below with the preconceived notion that they are sending unnecessary packets for the purpose of keeping good folks locked out.. (tee hee)

(John_Broadsword)
"Folks, regarding the "disappearing character" issue there needs to be some clarification. There are 2 separate issues with this. The first of those issues involves a client-only bug that we identified a fix for last week and implemented yesterday. Unfortunately, this client-only issue is the rarer of the 2 and one that would only affect 1 character becoming invisible on screen.

The other "disappearing characterS" issue where multiple characters/monsters/pets/objects disappear off the screen is a connection issue. As of our investigations thus far - this is most likely NOT a game-related issue as it only started occuring about 2-3 weeks ago and no changes have been made to the game recently that would point to an issue like this starting. Connection issues aren't necessarily an ISP issue, and we don't think this issue is an ISP-related one, but our best theory is that this may be some sort of hardware/firmware/firewall update or common app running in tandem with DAOC that is impacting players who happen to have gotten that update or are running some common application that changed and is now causing issues with DAOC.

What we'd like from those that are experiencing the multiple characters/monsters/pets/objects disappearing at once issue to do is to try logging into the game without any other 3rd party apps running and see if they can still reproduce the issue. If they can't, start opening up other apps you normally use until you see the issue again.

In the meantime, we'll continue gathering information and working towards a fix for this matter. But to be clear, there is no timetable on a fix of this 2nd issue on our end as all of our indications are that it's a connection issue and not a game-related issue."

alnmike
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by alnmike » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:28 am

Interesting. Yeah, if you can find the banning statement I'd love to read it. Everything I've read said they ban for rvr but don't really care for pve as long as you aren't selling gold.

I basically used a bunch of trial accounts for the on and off couple month periods in the past 5 years I've played this game to farm quest rewards to template my 30+level 50's. Just no way I have time to run all those 5+hr quest lines for each character. Not gonna happen lol.

Im fully on board with subscribing (have probably 10 years of 2 accounts sub time), but just can't afford $150/month for the 1-2 hrs/day I can play.

That said, I will absolutely sub 4 accounts when the new server comes out. I've vowed on postcount years ago that I wouldn't sub even 1 account until that server comes out however.
Hopefully they lock down that server (to start with) to just subscription accounts also, then open it to EC as pop gets smaller, then fold back into ywain as pop drops, rinse, repeat.

Rob
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Re: only 1 free account allowed on a PC

Post by Rob » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:17 am

Hi Mr. Bobo Toast,

Thanks a lot for the kind words and information. The ping comment puzzles me because I can't imagine why Broadsword would have done such a thing. My guess is that whoever said this was speaking loosely -- maybe the person isn't a programmer -- and meant simply that there is a periodic signal sent from one machine to the other. But why would Broadsword bother doing this? The only time they need this signal (for stopping multiple ECs) is when an account logs into the server. They don't need it after that because DAOC already has mechanisms at both ends (client and server) for detecting LDs. So what would be the point of repeating the signal periodically?

But let's assume Broadsword has a reason for adding a periodic signal of some sort and they did it. If this is true, it only tells us when the information is sent. It does't tell us what information is sent. But the thing that people in this thread want to know is what.

As for a link between the ping and bug, without seeing the source code or reverse engineering the program, I don't think we can know. With bugs almost anything is possible. But even if they really are doing some new sort of "ping", and even if the ping and bug are linked, I think it would be possible in principle for them to keep the ping and fix the missing character problem.
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